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Thread: 307 VIN Y to a VIN 9

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    Default 307 VIN Y to a VIN 9

    There are two different versions of the H.O. 307 VIN 9 engine. From 1983 through 1985 the VIN 9 engine was a hydraulic flat tappet cam engine with larger port 5A heads use on both '83 and '84 Hurst Olds and '85 442. In 1986 and 1987 Oldsmobile perfected the design of the 307 with a roller cam and lifters and incorporating a swirl port design 7A head with smaller ports. This design produced more torque at lower RPM but reduced the horse power rating by 10.

    It is said that the peak of GM's carburated technology was Oldsmobile's 86-90 roller cammed 307. It is said that VIN 9 307's could also be found in some Cadillacs which can be a good start for a VIN 9 swap into your stock VIN Y Cutlass. Now many will say why not go with bigger cubes, all small blocks are a direct bolt in as well as big blocks to a certain extent. Well if you are looking for a V8 with great gas milage, smooth throttle response that is comparable to fuel injection and a good relyable daily driver then the 307 is for you.


    Factory Performance Specs:
    VIN 9 '83-'85
    180 [email protected] rpm
    245 [email protected] rpm

    VIN 9 '86-'90
    170 hp @ 4000 rpm
    250 ft-lbs @ 2600 rpm

    Here is a list of parts Oldsmobile used to change a VIN Y drive line into a VIN 9

    Engine
    Here is a list of parts that seperated the VIN 9 from the VIN Y:

    Harmonic Balancer
    Larger like all SBO and BBO balancers: GM# 417142

    Intake
    The manifolds are the same however the carb and aircleaner are as follows:
    4MV Rochester Qjet: GM# 17083553 (1983) 17084553 (1984 & 85) and 17086009 (1986 & 87)
    Dual Snorkal Air Cleaner: GM# 25042690

    Cam
    0.440/0.440 lift 196/208 @0.050 lift 109LSA for 83-85
    256/270 109LSA
    0.435/0.438 194/210 0.050 lift 109LSA for 86-90
    VIN 9's have a longer duration than the VIN Y
    VIN 9 lifters are interchangeable with VIN Y

    '83-'85 0.842" hyrdaulic flat tappet GM# 22519934
    '86-'90 0.921" hydraulic roller: GM# 922531804 (pictured below)


    Higer Rate Valve Springs:
    '83-'90 VIN 9: GM# 22510372

    Spring Pressure @ 1.270": VIN9 203-217 lbs, VINY 180-194 lbs.
    Spring Pressure @ 1.670": VIN9 85-95 lbs, VINY 76-84 lbs.
    Spring free length: VIN9 2.090", VINY 1.960"

    Pushrod Length: 8.265" hyd. / 7.718" roller

    Exhaust
    The '83-'85 5A head VIN Y and '83-'90 VIN 9's used the same cast iron exhaust manifolds however the '86-'87 7A head VIN Y used tubular stainless steel.
    All '83-'90 VIN 9 LH: GM# 22503678
    All '83-'90 VIN 9 LH: GM# 22521449

    If you want to give that factory look go with a Walker Exhaust system with a Y pipe split into duals.
    If you can find NOS factory here are the part numbers:
    Y-pipe: GM# 22516113
    RH Muffler/Tailpipe: GM# 22526204
    LH Muffler/Tailpipe: GM# 22526205Tailpipe hangers: GM# RH 22520308 and LH 22520309

    Transmission:
    VIN 9 cars use a 4 speed overdrive TH-2004r with different shift points due to different governors and also have a higher 2400RPM stall D5 converter (GM# 8653400 with CBBF on the paper tag, 2050RPM stall with 14 blade stator) than the stock VIN Y TH-2004r transmission.
    D5 Torque converter PN's
    '83-'85 OZ & BQ: 8634993
    '86-87 KZF: 8642965 (BRF 8656903)
    There were two different Transmissions offerered for VIN 9 vehicles
    1983-85 has code OZ on the trans tag while '86-'87 reads KZF. These transmissions have a wide open throttle shift point (WOT) of 4800rpm than the VIN Y TH2004R which has a WOT shift point of 3000rpm.

    The gear ratios: 1st: 2.74, 2nd: 1.57, 3rd: 1.00 and 4th (OD): 0.67

    Here is some more info in 4-speeds:
    The WOT shift points of CZF (Monte SS) and BQ and BRF(GN) 2004R's are at 5200rpm (due to a larger governor GM# 8655976)
    The 86 and 87 BRF GN transmissions also have a larger servo for heaver shifting.

    Valve Body:
    1983 OZ: GM# 8639918
    1984 OZ: GM# 8639131
    1985 OZ: GM# 8639493
    1986 & 87 KZF: GM# 8657286

    ECM

    1985: VIN 9 ECM GM# 16040813
    Will dig up more info on this later.

    Rear End
    Though not necessary but always good is the a 3.73 gearing to get the same performace as a VIN 9 car.
    It is not important which 10 bolt rear end you use, a 7.5" ('83 VIN 9) or the harder to find and more expensive 8.5" ('84-'87 VIN 9) will suffice since you are not pushing more than 400hp.
    Also, 3.42, 3.23 and 3.08 gears are a good selection as well depending on your application.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by smokelessfire; 01-28-2009 at 09:52 PM.

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    Senior Member SalonCutlass85's Avatar
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    good info i will be changing my "Y" to the "9" just changing the cam an te heads from a 7a to 5a an the manifold as well.(:
    Can You Say Vroom?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SalonCutlass85 View Post
    good info i will be changing my "Y" to the "9" just changing the cam an te heads from a 7a to 5a an the manifold as well.(:
    The downside between the two different VIN 9 engines is that they are NOT interchangeable. You cannot add 5A heads to a 7A roller motor.

    It's almost as easy as a Camshaft change to get the performance and you might be able to get away with it but to do it right you will need:
    1. New roller cam and roller lifters if it has 6A or 7A heads otherwise flat tappet.
    2. Change the valve springs (you might be able to get away with not doing this).
    3. Swap out the harmonic balancer for a larger 350-455 balancer and have the motor externally balanced.
    4. Find any 307 Exhaust manifolds from any pre '85 5A head 307 so you can keep your O2 sensor and increase the flow.
    4. Find a carb and ECM setup from an '86 or '87 442.

    That is all you will have to do besides losing the cat and run some duals.

    May seem like a large investment but these parts can be found in the bone yard and if you can find a wrecked Caddy with a VIN 9 motor then your set. Keep in mind this is for those diehard 307 fans, if you don't have much expertise in engine work and want cheep performance there is no replacement for more Oldsmobile cubic inches. Please just don't drop a Ch*vy in it, it will just become another weird looking Monte Carlo...
    Oldsmobile 350's and 403's are a direct bolt in and you can reuse all your accessories along with keeping the computer if the cam isn't too wild.

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    Senior Member SalonCutlass85's Avatar
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    well that does not seem like allot of work .An i am keeping my olds 307 no Monte here!
    I am only 19 an would like to keep it stock for now butt when i get my real job i would love to try to push more horse's out of the 307... I know putting a 350 would be less work but how many 307 can rip some tires?:p
    Can You Say Vroom?!

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    Senior Member Fader's Avatar
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    Great info. I have a vin 9 307 out of a 86' 442 that I plan on putting into my 85' 442 for the time being. What should I do to the engine short of a rebuild if I don't know the history of it? I plan on replacing most of the gaskets & visually inspecting it. Any recomendations?

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    Doing the timing chain, bearings and a rering isnt too hard, some calipers to check tolerance, a torque wrench, ring compressor, hone brush and a degree wheel should be all that you need. You can rent some of those from most Auto Parts stores.
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    Sounds like a plan. Who knows, I may end up keeping the 307 in there for a while. I just read a complete 307 breakdown on www.442.com .....It seems like some people prefer the 86-87 vin 9 with Swirl Port heads which has worse flow while producing 10 less HP but More torque.....Most seem to prefer the 83-85 Vin 9 with the higher flowing 5a heads.....I've been looking at a bunch of pics, but I'm not 100% sure, did the dual snorkel air cleaner originally have a sticker on it? I just bought a Very Nice one & it doesn't have a sticker...but I have seen several pics of 442s with a sticker right on top of it...

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    442.com has questionable information sometimes, it's a good start... but don't take it for granted.
    Personally I like the 86-87 Roller Motors, they run much smoother and last much longer than the 83-85's.
    Also, if you are going to go with a basic rebuild make sure that you are going to use the motor for a few years so as not to waste time and money.
    If you plan to swap out in a year with something larger then I would just do some simple gaskets and install.

    83-87 VIN 9 Air Cleaners did not have a sticker on top, just one small 1"x1" bar code decal for the air filter.
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    Senior Member Fader's Avatar
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    Thanks for your quick response...I think I could survive with the 307 for a few years...I will probabaly save hundreds on speeding tickets alone...joking...can I pick your brain on 2 more 442 ?s.....would my dual snorkel air cleaner work on any olds small block, if I build a larger engine & keep the 307 appearance?....& what is a reasonable price for a good condition set of stock 442 rims? I already bought one set that needs refinished & now I found nother local set that appear to be in great shape...he wants $200 for the set & the 442 caps without tires....I paid $100 & a set of bucket seats for my 1st set....had no idea Id run across another set so quickly....Thanks in advance.....Oh, did the white/blue 85 arrive?

  10. #10

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    I know this is an old thread but incase somebody searched this and looking for accurate info, those cam specs are way wrong. In order to have 68 degrees of overlap with 262/274 duration the LSA would have to be 100 degrees.

    The real cam specs are 256/270 LSA is 109.

  11. #11
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    I'm finding 0.440/0.440 lift 196/208 @0.050 lift 109LSA for 83-85 and 0.435/0.438 194/210 0.050 lift 109LSA for 86-90 doing an internet search.
    I'll check my books to see what the real figures are...
    Lightning Rods repair service:CLICK HERE
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    88 CSC White/Claret - T-tops
    88 H/O Triple Black
    87 442 Black/Gray - T-tops
    85 442 White/Blue - T-tops
    85 442 White/Blue - T-tops
    85 442 White/Claret - T-tops
    85 442 White/Sage
    84 H/O Aero Commemorative #2199 - Sunroof
    83 H/O #2400 Sand Gray - Sunroof
    83 H/O #1607 Sand Gray - T-tops
    83 H/O #727 Maple
    "Keep them Rockets lit!"

  12. #12

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    Those are correct. I was giving the advertised duration numbers.
    http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2463/449/31155224025_medium.jpg

    1974 Olds Omega 468 BBO 11.85 @ 112 MPH on 87 octane 1.62 60 ft.

    1987 442 Bone stock 250,000 miles

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